Upro vs voo reddit. Decay isn't some boogeyman that drives all things to zero.
Upro vs voo reddit I’ve found it very easy to sleep at night while employing this strategy. g. 25%. Similarly, you can mix TQQQ/QQQ or even TMF/BLV. I’m i. Think of the expense ratio as the management fee paid to the mutual fund or Exchange-traded Fund (ETF) for the benefit of owning the fund, which is measured as a percent of your investment in the fund. For example, for an investor with a $1M portfolio, the 50/50 VOO/UPRO would be estimated to cost about $4500 less annually in expenses relative to 100% SSO (a pretty small figure relatively IMO but not negligible). SWVXX, SGOV, VOO are apples and oranges and potatoes. That's a loss of 33%. If there was a 3x world LETF, I'd jump on to that. We're talking If you believe in the S&P500 always going up in the long-term, why not leverage 2x? I've heard theoretical explanations for why SSO might not be better than SPY/VOO, but whenever I look at the historical data there's not really a period where you wouldn't have outperformed as long as you hold for at minimum 3-5 years (which I'm assuming everyone here plans to do in the There are no tax advantages to holding VOO vs VFV in a TFSA. Why does everyone like VOO so much? I know it tracks the S&P500 and the S&P500 always makes money- but there are multiple other etfs that do that. Why VOO? Also- why buy VOO when the price is so high? Finally, putting 2% of your portfolio into UPRO doesn't seem risky at all. 28k for a cumulative return of 72. DCAing helps mitigate risk a lot in a pure 100% UPRO investment, but it’s obviously still highly volatile and there’s no guarantee you’ll beat VOO over a 10 - 20 yr period but the probability of underperforming VOO over those timelines Optimized Portfolio has a good one using AVUV and VOO as a base while tilting into emerging and so it’s a little funny to talk about US vs international, but there is a big difference in valuation ratios if you look at a US index fund versus and ex-US fund r/ARG is joining the Reddit Blackout. VOO is 2X larger in terms of AUM than IVV based on these charts. Keep in mind I'm only doing this with a very small percentage of my portfolio, I mostly have my portfolio in boring index ETFs. Or coke vs Pepsi. SPXL has a 1. Expand user menu Open settings menu. What do you think of these for a portfolio? Do you think it’s a good idea splitting a 3x and 2x leverage 50/50 to get 2. knowing your limitations is important. 51% of my taxable portfolio is IVV. 015% expense ratio. VOO vs. Compare VOO and UPRO ETFs on current and historical performance, AUM, flows, holdings, costs, ESG ratings, and many other metrics. 82 left in cash. My whole Roth is UPRO and I hold TQQQ in my taxable account for monthly DCA. if you Backtest VTI vs VOO it takes half a decade to get a meaningful difference. UPRO is more vague but in UPRO's prospectus, the swaps are indexed to the total return of various S&P 500 ETFs and not the price index I currently maintain 10% of my total taxable account portfolio in the HFEA UPRO/EDV strategy and have DCA’d it since November 1, 2021. For more information To some extent, VOO and qqqm are related due to the overweight in tech but they are fundamentally very different due to their holdings and what they track. 45% advantage of half UPRO half VOO may be worth it over using SSO. If you don't want to tilt, then just go with the blend (VOO or equivalent S&P 500 ETF/MF). Fund selection is the LAST step of asset allocation. 8x. Or check it out in the app stores LETF like TQQQ Thanks! Is there anywhere that I can find the financing cost for upro and bulz? I didn’t see anything for upro and bulz fact sheet called it something that is showing up as 3. However that is recency bias A simple backtest of QQQ vs SPY on For example, 90% UPRO and 10% VOO would have an approximate leverage of 2. By holding both VOO and VTI your US equities portion of the portfolio is overweight large cap and underweight mid/small cap. 03% expense ratio while UPRO has 0. Get the Reddit app Scan this QR code to download the app now. View community ranking In the Top 10% of largest communities on Reddit. This would be something like VTI + VXUS. You can backtest 3x SPY or 3x the real S&P 500 with some drag/discount to returns to account for ER and borrowing costs, and see it does “fine” (lol) in terms of a big drawdown but something that could be handled and then recover from. Would be the same as vanguards VOO. VOO is a given in my portfolio as reccomended by countless people. I have plenty of exposure to tech already to look at QQQ. 78% stdev vs VOO's 18. Difference between SPY vs VOO vs VTI As an official Fidelity customer care channel, our community is the best way to get help on Reddit with your questions about investing with Fidelity – directly from Fidelity Associates. With an uncorrelated asset like bonds, we can arguably go higher, which is where HFEA came from. 19% gross expense ratio which ends up at 0% net since they waive the fees. our community is the best way to get help on Reddit with your questions about investing with Fidelity UPRO, TQQQ, FNGU, FAS, UCO, LABU, It will not grow and stay ahead of inflation like VOO will. It feels to me that 3x is unnecessary risk vs 2x, with not much more reward, unless of course you sell at the top. U) that generates 5. If you wanted to buy $500 a month of an S&P 500 index fund using VOO, you would get 1 share of VOO at $416. 81 (VOO 2020 distributions), or you could not hold US equities at all which clearly is a downside because you miss out on some of the most important investment opportunities out there. So you could either buy VOO and pay the inevitable currency conversion fees which is usually about 1. My understanding is that this is due to the daily resetting of these funds. So those are the same, although VOO has a lower expense ratio. 90: UPRO Stats Fidelity. 73 vs. Hi everyone, I am currently holding majority of my TFSA holdings in XEQT and I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on holding act vs VOO/VFV. SPXL - not so much. Both strategies try (and seem historically successful at) limiting drawdowns - Personally, I set my Roth IRA to 60% VOO, 40% SSO after VOO dropped below $420. Whether you chose, SPY, VOO, IVV doesn't really matter as they all Hello r/investing, I am holding VOO on my taxable account and need to decide whether to pick FXAIX or VOO for the traditional IRA. It isn’t exactly equivalent and they will produce different returns, you are correct, but you’re wrong to say that a 50/50 split of UPRO/VOO that is appropriately rebalanced as needed in a tax-advantaged won’t approximate a 2x S&P 500 much much closer than VOO or UPRO would “approximate” a 2x LETF. You could go something like UPRO/TMF/VOO/TLT at 25% weighting each, and could essentially replace a portion of VOO with small cap, emerging markets etc and replace some of TLT with weightings of intermediate treasuries. As you can see, the Nasdaq 100 does not "legit always perform better than VOO. Pretty What they don’t do is explain “decay” is just one form of multiplicative compounding, just like any interest or return compounding over time. 45% SPY 1mo:+. 01%. I've explained it in various places on reddit - I run it all using a Unix script It works the other way around as well. But I am happy with a CAGR of 16. However, I cannot decide on which index fund to commit to. Good and bad, you're betting your money on the winners. 25% to help offset the fees of the letfs. While UPRO is 3x daily, the effect of compounding over many many days can also lead to UPRO or other LETFs significantly outperforming a 3x return vs. 401k is a target date for my fall back if these plans go to shit, Here are my backtests for NTSX vs VOO since inception. In other words, 86% of VTI is identical to VOO with the other 14% being small and mid cap stocks. Lastly UPRO has existed in the perfect environment for 3x leverage - EDIT: However the main issue is optimizing weights based on past data. And justifiably so. As I learn more about LEFTs like UPRO and TQQQ, the theme seems to be that volatility compounds losses over times. Invest only what you can afford to lose. 7% total return, VOO +23. Just swap the VOO for VTI to correct that. I want time for when I actually put the money in, so I can buy the VOO stocks low instead of right now, but I don't think voo is going to get much cheaper before the end of the year. I prefer Vanguard because of their business ownership model but as for the products to buy they are essentially the same. so would it be wise to SELL the VOO and the SWPPX and put that money in the FXAIX? its just confusing I am trying to understand why there is so much back and forth about buying and holding SSO. Qqqm tracks the top 100 companies listed in nasdaq, excluding the financial sectors. In this post, I'm looking for comments on which approach you feel is better: the traditional 60/40 UPRO-TMF and Monthly SMA SPY and VOO both track the same index: the S&P 500. I am aware that XEQT has an increased diversification so there is less risk there as 11 votes, 31 comments. 6? The cash portion will be in a high savings account etf (HSAV/HSUV. I tend to prefer VOO or IVV since the expense ratio is ever so slightly lower on those funds. 8% vs 4%. g tech sector" 20 votes, 15 comments. (In reality it would depend on how closely the modeled volatility fit the real scenario. Given that tech and AI will likely still be king in the future, is the higher risk (and volatility)/higher return from QQQM worth it, or should I settle for an average market return from VOO only? TQQQ is already 40% of UPRO and provides a tilt toward the market segment with the lowest expected returns and specifically a big sector bet on tech. 3% total return, VOO -8. FXIAX as a mutual fund can be tax loss harvested with the funds reinvested the same day. SSO would do amazingly. Any allocation of pay retail rates for trading commissions vs. This includes beginner questions and portfolio help. The market is efficient. the underlying index over longer periods of time. It's basically a leveraged S&P at less than 3x, with some potential for a rebalancing bonus. First you need to establish your goals, timeline, and risk tolerance, and some Here is backtest of 80% SCHD and 20% TQQQ with dividends reinvested compared to QQQ and VOO. Now to simulate SSO and UPRO. The fine print says they are required to waive until June 30th, 2023 which has passed. I'm curious to what arguments are against going for VOO instead of VEQT/XEQT. I’m planning on doing this in my IRA. Which basically breaks down to VOO with a little extra aggression added in. For 2x leverage that gives you 100% equities/100% bonds, you can use 25/25/25/25 UPRO/TMF/VOO/TLT. 57% UPRO<3×SPY. Im not s JEPI hater, I just understand that its an income investment, which is very different from a growth investment like VOO. I will use 100% leverage and 4% debt interest for SSO (backtest comparison) and 200% leverage and 3% debt interest for UPRO (backtest comparison) I’m a fan of this strategy. I think I looked into it once and it targets an even spread of bond durations. For investors comfortable with leveraged ETFs and who are seeking to implement a 2x large cap leverage strategy (or some variation of it) in a taxable account, what are your Compare UPRO and VOO based on historical performance, risk, expense ratio, dividends, Sharpe ratio, and other vital indicators to decide which may better fit your portfolio. Great to see you again on our sub, u/stockbetss. 9%. If you want info on the pros and cons of UPRO vs TQQQ, there are literally dozens of threads that touch on that here in one way or another. The S&P 500 (VOO) makes up about 80% or do of the US total market. Reply reply Rav_3d Even if VOO goes up over the next ten years, SSO could still perform worse than it or go down over ten years if VOO is volatile enough. SPLG. VOO is Vanguard’s ETF that tracks the S&P 500 index passively. 46%. 60. Borrowing costs and volatility decay hurt when looking at time periods that are "peak to 74 votes, 65 comments. A place to discuss Hedgefundie's Excellent Adventure! This sub is dedicated to discussing an investment strategy known as Hedgefundie's Excellent Adventure (HFEA) and other leveraged/unlevered modern portfolio theory portfolios such as NTSX, PSLDX, SPY/TLT unlevered, flavors of using intermediate term treasuries, and so on. But my primary concern is this: could there be a I actually think based on this the 0. VOO vs VTI is almost Coke vs Pepsi at this point. Posted by u/proverbialbunny - 7 votes and 7 comments Here is a graph comparing 50% UPRO and 50% TMF to 50% FAS 50% TMF. Now I have 19% of my portfolio in UPRO, partly a product of past growth. 2021, SCHD+QQQM +21. Today - Large Growth valuations are much higher than 10+ years ago and faced with higher interest rate environment now. 66. 53% while UPRO is -0. 07 if i am correct. 5 leverage? I heard 2 So 75% UPRO and 25% VOO? I'm not sure one can really state that as a fact. Interestingly, if you use only data from 2015-2021 and try to add BSTSX and ARKK, then you would remove both All this to say, since 1972, VOO and VTI have produced identical returns down to the 0. I want to put all of the money into the VOO etf S&P 500 index fund thingy. When we want to consider ER costs, it's better to go with 3x version, and have smaller allocation of your be subject to those higher ER (higher than VOO/TLT anyway). I know that FXAIX comes with a lower ER compared to VOO, but I want to hear your thoughts on what is a better choice. But, being “Bogleheads”, aside from the international allocation argument, there really isn’t much to talk about if you’re following this philosophy closely. too many investors on reddit made foolish decisions on the ( or VT if you want international exposure) and chill but since your asking about VOO vs SSO go with VOO. I believe VTI is superior to VOO in all terms. It then increased from there to around $400 in 2022. VOO. I'm in the same boat, i bought FXAIX then i pressed AUTO INVEST, in ETRADE, and ended up buying VOO and some SWPPX. VOO and VTI have 86% weighted overlap and you can find that with the free overlap tool on etfrc. please give reasons apart from "diversification" or "not over-investing in one sector e. Suddenly your expected return for VOO is no longer higher. ) At the core SSO has similar fees to UPRO so the leverage is a bit more expensive in relative terms. Advice Request most of reddit is unprepared for the market to go flat for 10-15 years, like happened 2000-2012 and 1968-1982. But to say it doesn't exists cause numbers went up is pure innumeracy Decay wasnt that bad this month Backtests are misleading. The obvious preference for Nasdaq is due the performance of nasdaq vs sp500 over the past 10-15, or in other words since the creation of tqqq and upro funds. (I couldn't find the underlying index for FAS so I used Berkshire Hathaway. A tech startup would an extreme example of a growth company (higher upside and downside) and a utility company would be an extreme example of a value company (they're not really going to expand/evolve their business model so they pay out profits as dividends and that's where a lot of your return comes from). DIA, which tracks the Dow Jones Industrial Average, is very concentrated (30 companies) and is price-weighted, so companies that happen to have never or rarely split their shares are overweight. Personally, I don’t like QQQ due to being influenced too much by the tech sector. Even if you end up with 50% of your portfolio in UPRO (because UPRO grows too much and/or you keep adding), that's still a 2x leverage, which isn't ridiculous. If you change debt interest to 1% in the first link, then SPY 3x returns 13. I lumped in my contribution cap by early March, so my SSO position there has not been averaged down. Has anyone simulated the backtest with NTSX’s 6x bonds? Portfoliovisualizer only has a couple years of data for this ticker. What are the ups and downs of each and There are plenty of things that perform better than VOO, so thinking of this in terms of "maximizing" is a bad idea. UPRO is 3X Bull ETF for S&P500 TQQQ is same but for NASDAQ100 SOXL is also same but for Semis It is often emphasized that Tech is here to stay, making TQQQ and SOXL lucrative compared to UPRO. there's no shame in ignorance. 2% total return. 3 years ago I was trying to pay off my mortgage and was selling off FXAIX. voo vs veqt/xeqt I started investing 1 year ago and I'm fully in VEQT and XEQT (yes I know they are very similar I simply picked one for my TFSA and the other for RRSP). The takeaway is that both UPRO and TMF returns had a much wider spread in 5-yr returns than the 40/60 HFEA, and the mean return was significantly larger for the HFEA flavors than the mean return for UPRO (although a fraction of the View the differences and similarities in the holdings and other statistics of UPRO vs. In recent years that's been closer to 3. SCHG) or value (e. A lot of companies have ETFs tracking this index, with the most traded one being SPY. I've always been partial to SPY & QQQ, but I've noticed a lot of people on this sub prefer Vanguard ETFs. A broader index is safer with 3x leverage, relatively speaking. Though these are guaranteed to move the same direction, they do it less violently than UPRO and TMF when they move together. The reason it outperformed the last decade (actually since 2000) is that daily HFEA vs UPRO vs VOO --- DCA simulations with random start and end dates between 1986 and today (Part 2) So why wouldn't a leveraged ETF work the same way? VOO fell from around $300 to around $200 in 2020. 04x. I target a 2:2:1 ratio of those three (small cap gets less because it's more volatile). I’m looking at a long term horizon of 20-25 years, i’m curious to hear what you all think about committing to VOOG instead of VOO. I'll be happy to help clarify here. If you have no interest in option and do not have 5 billion dollars there is no reason to choose SPY and pay higher expense ratio vs VOO SCHX and VOO are *almost* the same thing. What’s most important is that you choose one and stick with it for the long haul. ) So yes SCHG beat VOO the past 10 years but Large Growth was absolutely horrendous for the 2000-2010 decade. As for VOO vs SPY: doesn't matter much. I have the thought to go 50/50 between TQQQ and VOO and rebalance annually. Not sure why they didn’t call it the fed funds rate I’d that is what it is based on. With SPY 10k goes to 12k, then to 14. SPY vs QQQ vs VOO, SWTSX vs VTI vs IWV, SPDW vs VT, etc etc. In reading through the Boglehead's HFEA thread, it seems that at one point or another, one of these is paired with UPRO in someone's modified portfolio. SPXL Stats Fidelity. I’m looking to throw a lump sum in a taxable brokerage account. And UPRO has some, which is that UPRO, like TQQQ, is heavily reliant on US economy itself. UPRO down almost 8%, an underperformance of almost 20%. but then there are even better strategies, by many metrics, than this, and we’re getting into active management. However, with TQQQ I can't find a strategy that beats buy and hold (test period limited to 2011). After fees UPRO is exactly hitting the marks. with the hassle of rebalancing every quarter and the riskier asset with UPRO more liable to fund closure. Is it cheaper to use 3x(upro) + cash or 2x(sso) + cash or upro/sso + voo to maintain a target leverage of 1. Maybe mix it up a bit. I personally don't think there is a right or wrong answer. UPRO, SSO, QLD, TQQQ . Scenario A: VOO doubles over the next ten years with zero volatility, just a steady climb. So I ran into VOOG. It will tell you to remove UPRO. Over time you’ll end up With a 20-25 years buy-and-hold investment horizon/approach for my taxable brokerage account, I am debating between a simple 100% VOO allocation and a 50% VOO + 50% QQQM. Please note that as a topic focused subreddit we have higher posting standards than much of Reddit: 1) Please direct all advice requests and beginner questions to the stickied daily threads. They are sensible, lowish risk, above average returns. I dug through both prospectuses, TMF's clearly states they use total return indexes on TLT. Ideally, you invest in VOO for 20-30 years then convert it to JEPI for income. Here are some Hi, welcome to r/investing. Diversify your market cap exposure, like a mix of UPRO (large cap), UMDD (mid cap), and URTY (small cap). 87% also but I think 3% seems right - if I do it for the period of 2010 to now, it matches UPRO's return to three sig figs. Using their leverage method and a 3% debt interest (first link), SPY 3x is returning 9. 93%. 5x leverage vs a similar ratio with UPRO/TMF, does NTSX's strategy remove the volatility losses? View community ranking In the Top 5% of largest communities on Reddit. Seems with UPRO, a 10 month market timing model that rotates in/out with TMF at 10 month MA crossover works better than buy and hold. So massive over performance. 10% of my taxable portfolio is VB. Here's how buying UPRO now and holding for the next ~31 months compares to buying a LEAP option with a strike of $300 that 10 votes, 24 comments. The only reason to chose SPY over VOO if you want to do something with options or you have like 5 billion you want to invest quickly as SPY has more liquidity . method (second link), SPY 3x returns 13. VOO is an ETF with a 0. Here is QQQ vs VOO from the inception of QQQ in 1999 the end of the 2000s. SSO seems like it’s costs may simply be too high to really deliver a large advantage over VOO. The company that manages SPY also manages SGOV which is another ETF that tracks returns on very short term treasury bonds. So VOO is slightly less diversified. VTI vs SPY vs VOO? How to choose? I am debating between all of these for my portfolio. If I had to give a logical reason it's because VOO self-cleans itself. However, Semis are cycle dependent and SOXL return might turn out to be choppy, leaving TQQQ to be the ultimate 3X bull ETF for long term hold. None of what you have are "maximize" ETFs. if you look at the data since UPRO in 2009 started you are correct, just barely though a CAGR of 25. I personally hold VOO in my personal brokerage and VTI in my Roth. So VOO/SPY vs VTI is a wash. When upro goes down a lot you’ll be purchasing more of it and when it goes up again and starts outpacing xyld you’ll be going larger dividends still. Or check it out in the app stores which would you prefer to hold in your portfolio TQQQ vs SPXL/UPRO Edit: Come on voo. 5% above the overnight rate on the entire amount and 15% of approximately $1. , reduce UPRO as recent volatility increases). com Skip to main Get the Reddit app Scan this QR code to download the app now. 03% expense ratio. Unfortunately Interactive Brokers does not allow me to invest in VOO most likely for US tax purposes because I’m a European. This mitigates 08' great recession and COVID. UPRO ETF Comparison Analysis | etf. With VOO coming out on top though, that gets my “aggressive time in my life” money. These numbers validate all the criticism against leveraged funds. I'd only choose VOO if I wanted to see the current, most accurate, and up-to-date ticker more easily through the media. one I keep seeing is VOO and I am interested Personally, I wouldn't use VOO in any account where I'm not limited to a short list, I'd look towards total market style funds, including investing globally. VOO 7. 20) with greater exposure in markets I’m unfamiliar with. Back to the expense ratio concept, I want as low as possible for a passive etf. VOO as an ETF is able to avoid wash sale rules. We certainly know one thing: Cash is awful. So if entry point is 2020 then the risk parity upro/Tmf 55/45 slightly underperformed just holding vti. 6k for a 310% cumulative return vs the expected 218% return if we just tripled up the cumulative SPY return. In layman terms, Voo tracks the s&p 500, 500 of the largest companies listed in nasdaq. I hold a fair amount of VOO, DIA, and QQQ, but when the corresponding 3x letf fund (UPRO, UDOW, TQQQ) drops 5% from ath, I’ll sell the regular index fund and buy the letf. My VOO grew at 10%, but the UPRO did not grow at 30%. So what I’m saying is that we don’t know whether SCHG can outperform VOO the next 10 years. The dividends plus growth portfolio has outperformed both indexes. 4% to 24. WHO ELSE THINK THAT ITS BETTER TO HAVE 55/45 QLD/TMF VS 55/45 UPRO TMF? IF YOU BACTEST FROM 2010 WITH MONTHLY REBALINCING, YOU'LL SEE Check out "growth stocks vs value stocks". Log In / Sign Up; Advertise on Reddit; Shop Collectible Avatars; HFEA vs UPRO vs VOO --- DCA simulations with random start and end dates between 1986 and today (Part 1) In 2008-09 SPY actually gets ahead for a bit. Your etf tracks the sp500. That's due to decay. 6k then to 40. , at $1/share. I noticed it has a 0. Hello :) I want to see how many of you prefer either UPRO or TQQQ, especially in HFEA with TMF. I think anyone who has been around all this for some time knows it’s pretty much a meaningless argument. 8% with UPRO 10k would go to 16k, then to 25. 2x Leveraged ETFs Risk (vs 3x vs VOO) Towards the end of the common sense book, Jack says “For investors that have a very long time horizon, and considerable grit and guts— investors who have the courage to be unintimidated by periodic market crashes— clearly an allocation of 100% to the S&P 500 index fund would nearly always be the best choice” (Asset Allocation II, pg 239). I am also concerned about the ability to transfer assets from one brokerage to another. the TQQQ and SPXL have significantly greater returns than the QQQ or SPY over 5+ years. I'm looking at SFY as an alternative to VOO. Then SPXL has some inefficiencies - over the benchmark it's 3. Or check it out in the app stores If you would like to take a little more risk, think about a sprinkling of UPRO or TQQQ. Hi all, I’m currently using syfe’s fractional shares to DCA monthly into SPY. If backtesting to 1970s, UPRO performs similarly to TQQQ but during more recent periods TQQQ outperforms in a 60/40 HFEA-like For example, if you want to buy VOO, and your brokerage doesn't offer fractional shares of VOO - and Schwab doesn't - you would have to buy whole shares at $416. So my question is VOO had fees of 0. 03 vs 0. 18 each. ". SPY's minimum worth is $1880, UPRO's worth drops below the original investment, at $939. 10k turns to 126k vs 40k. SPY seems to be one of the most common ETFs I hear about when talking about funds that rack the S&P 500. But over a 11 year period the cagr was 27% vs 14. The strategy of holding UPRO when the SPX is above it's 200 day moving average, otherwise holding cash. Or check it out in the app stores UPRO and SPXL vs things like SPY and VTG . I also use robinhood and I currently have VOO as well as other various stocks/etfs but was looking narrow down my portfolio. Assuming an allocation of ~40-45% UPRO. Taxes will lower with SPY and VOO. 7. Decay isn't some boogeyman that drives all things to zero. Is LETF (TQQQ and UPRO) Please note that as a topic focused subreddit we have higher posting standards than much of Reddit: 1) Please direct all advice requests and beginner questions to the stickied daily threads. Let’s hit $500 per share You could recreate PSLDX without the junk or corporate bonds and suffer smaller drawdowns while keeping 2x leverage. 16 votes, 33 comments. UPRO VS QLD . AFAIK, IRS has never publicly clarified on what they consider "substantially identical" when it pertains to using "tax loss harvesting pairs" (ie: SPY/VOO, UPRO/SPXL, etc). It sounds like you're concerned about a fund's expense ratio. Only the top (best) 500 companies make it. Tech did very poorly in 2022 and value stocks doing (relatively) fantastic, you end up breaking even with VOO. Allocation of 25% NTSX, 25% PSLDX,25% UPRO, 25% TMF . . which takes us to SPLG. Get app Get the Reddit app Log In Log in to Reddit. I’ve The corporate bonds in PSDLX worry me, but I’m considering switching another account to 25/25/25/25 UPRO/TMF/VOO/TLT to replicate PSDLX more or less. 233% vs 1330% and 113% vs 445%. If anything, I would recommend going broader than UPRO, rather than going narrower like TQQQ. Tech is like 28% of the market though. Section 1256 capital gains don't offset dividends. Options trading is possible with VOO and SPY. com. Log In / Sign Up; Advertise on Reddit; Shop Collectible Avatars; I'm not sure about TQQQ specifically, but an investment in UPRO vs an non-leveraged ETF like VOO would result in the non-leveraged fund performing almost equally well with far VOO seems to be the most recommended etf in this community. After the big run up in value at the beginning of this year, I swapped into just the regular S&P 500 (VOO) but I think we are going to be out of Delta fears soon so I'm swapping back into VOOV. 41 vs. But the difference between the two is so negligible either one is fine. This would mean you could buy the other assets at a bargain and would have to buy VOO at a premium. VOO is an S&P 500 fund meaning it tracks the index and the QQQ tracks the nasdaq 100. The S&P has a more rigorous analysis vs nasdaq which is just whatever As a buy and hold investor, what’s wrong with holding leveraged ETFs like UPRO or TQQQ if you’re not concerned about volatility? I understand the concept of decay but looking at the historical charts of UPRO vs VOO and TQQQ vs - UPRO comes out with $584,282 (7. I have also seen VOO That being said, the only major difference is your talking about a staple fidelity investment product vs a Vanguard Product. Because 50% UPRO and 50% VOO has a better expected return, and you could shift the VOO into UPRO if/when the market tanks. 18 and you would have $83. View community ranking In the Top 5% of largest communities on Reddit. If we all knew that VOO would reliably and consistently beat small caps and international then its price would rise while the price of the other assets would fall. I’m currently invested in both VOO and VOOG. The mechanics can get complicated if you want to make sure you pass backtests and are robust/not overfit, and requires statistical analysis in simulations, but you can easily come up with heuristic schedules for de-leveraging and Yeah, I'm a big fan of the 3x AWP in non-taxable accounts for this purpose, but the problem is that the other funds aren't very tax efficient compared to UPRO and TMF - so HFEA is really the only choice when you're doing taxable. I’d recommend googling it or searching on Reddit before buying. You could be right as I have no idea how these were compiled. Opinion: If UPRO had been open for a very long time prior to 2008, no, it would be terribly unlikely for it to have closed. I also think it would be beneficial to have international exposure and a hedge to compensate for the volatility of If doing 3x leverage - 3x dividends is a huge tax drag. HFEA's strategy of 60/40 TMF and UPRO, rebalancing quarterly. If you do want to tilt, you should pick either growth (e. But this matches with what's on Vanguard's site. I noticed SOXQ is a relatively new fund but it seems to have the same holdings at basically the same percentages as SOXX, but a cheaper "Share price" and much lower expense ratio than both SOXX and SMH. Looking to throw some $ in to a semi-conductor ETF and was wondering what everyone's thoughts are? Leaning towards SOXQ. No reason it can't be extended further to the last cent. John Bogle proved that index fund that owns the whole market or the majority of the market like VT/VTI/VOO will provide solid Get the Reddit app Scan this QR code to download the app now. More diversification and less points of failure (such as Standard and Poors doing a bad job of picking stocks or turbulence in the market leading to too much change in the 500 top If you must have a tech slant, I would say something more sensible is UPRO + QQQ. In an RRSP you'd be able to keep a little bit more of the dividends paid out by the underlying companies with VOO, but even that's not a big deal unless you're talking large sums of money. Although VT contains VOO, yes you can overweight VOO by investing in both Although I personally believe that VT + small cap value funds provide the best risk adjusted returns without idiosyncratic risk, if you wanted to hold VT + VOO in pretty much any ratio (e. Your effective leverage will be around 1. UDOW provides a decent Value tilt in LETFs but unfortunately is still a silly price-weighted index of 30 stocks at the end of the day. 57x return) Right now I'm all in on SSO/QLD, while planning to continue to DCA. There's probably a way to get leverage out of VT (a world ETF), but LETFs are pretty darn QQQ vs VGT vs VOO vs VUG . A little bit higher sharpe ratio, and a little higher sortino ratio. If it was me I would just go VTI. 03% but VUAA is 0. 4k then to 17. 2022, SCHD+QQQM -8. VOO vs VOOG - going for the long term Hello, so I am invested in VOO, and I’m looking to add or change to being a little more aggressive since I still have plenty of years to go. On a daily basis, 50% VOO+50% UPRO performs the exact same, just a tiny bit better for the VOO+UPRO. It does have a low expense ratio. I might also mention that I myself hold many different stock & ETFs, I'd just like to know what you consider to be the staples. I understand the volitility is higher than buying and holding SPY and you may have to wait a little longer for markets to recover but it just seems like if you hold it long enough (15+ years) and then start to deleverage as you get closer to retirement. Tech did poorly in 2021 relative to the market, you underperform in 2021. Sounds like a fine plan. I was wondering if there are any Instead of going with HFEA, I’ve simply bought 60% VOO, 40% SSO in my Roth IRA since VOO dropped from $440 to $420. There are much more productive discussions and arguments to be had here than VTI vs VOO. Also, I I am a beginner investor and I have a question. Every day on a market up day, I would put in a sell order and by close the S&P500 was well under the daily high. Many people were asking if investing 100% in UPRO with 200 daily SMA is better that HFEA (55 UPRO / 45 TMF). TQQQ vs UPRO . I have rebalanced 3 times so far to keep up with the strategy. 28 votes, 43 comments. In essence doing really advanced tax modeling for HFEA the short box spreads offset the re-balancing tax drag from UPRO/TMF, leading a HFEA portfolio to essentially have equivalent tax drag with UPRO/TMF vs outright leverage. Log In / Sign Up; Advertise on Reddit; Shop Collectible Avatars; HFEA vs UPRO vs VOO --- DCA simulations with random start and end dates between 1986 and today (Part 1) Just putting 33% into each my feeling is, doesn't really make that much sense because then you have this weird mashup, where you have 33% VOO, US large cap, but then you also have 33% VT, around half of which is VOO, so that's I only use SPXL for a tax loss harvest pair to UPRO. VTI tracks the entire US market I believe. Same as VOO (basically) but lower expense ratio. Both VOO The only difference is UPRO has 2x the borrowing costs and SSO only has 1x Anyone with significant holdings of TQQQ or UPRO, I’ve opted for 60% VOO, 40% SSO in my Roth IRA, and am now about 80% VTI, 20% SSO in my brokerage account. It enables an automatic monthly purchase of upro and xyld if you use something like m1. Don’t overthink it, pick one, and stick to it! Hope this makes sense. I have put a good amount of money into VOO but I'm feeling unsure about it. I would instead just use the 55/45 UPRO/TMF allocation and add maybe 5-10% of whichever sector you like, keeping the overall 55% stock allocation fixed (so you would have 45% Historically optimal leverage was about 2. VOO is market cap so almost a quarter of your money is in 10 companies and most of that is tech. Without bonds, yea I'd say SSO because I wouldn't go past 2x with "naked" equities, but I'd also use 50% UPRO and 50% VOO for lower fees and greater liquidity, as u/glincoln711 noted. As an official Fidelity customer care channel, our community is the best way to get help on Reddit with your questions about investing with Fidelity And if you try to optimize the portfolio of TQQQ, UPRO and TMF, it will give you 55/45 TQQQ/TMF. 48%, and a little bit lower max drawdown. You might have a personal preference, but it’s all the same thing. Imagine the market went up 20% per day for three days straight. Your question is asking what is the best compliment to VOO but we can’t answer that without more information. e. It’s not “wrong” to hold VOO per se, but the fundamental Boglehead approach is to hold the total market, for which VTI is more suitable than VOO. I will use January 1997 data because that is easier to compare with PortfolioVisualizer. 3% total return. wholesale rates institutions get plus commission-free routing from other funds offloading shares as well as lower commission dark pools. Something like UPRO for example. I have not opened a Roth ira yet. If I were to compare NTSX that uses futures and 1. Just run the simulations for that mix against something like SSO and There's so many options for general indexing. I also added some in my brokerage account. Using the CASHX. example if VTI = 80% VOO + 20% VXF you I saw something along those lines for SSO and the simulated result wasn’t quite as different as I had expected, might have been 6% vs 8%. Reply reply atheos42 VTI turnover is more than VOO. Scenario B: VOO doubles over the next ten years but with lots of ups and downs. There is no magic ratio, but mixing x% 1x (VOO) with y% 3x (UPRO) enables you to control your “effective leverage” continuously, from 1x - 3x and anything in between. Instead, for ~$400 (as of this writing), you can buy the VOO and let Vanguard's team of traders and fund managers worry about that for you. At that point comes a new bull market leading to the UPRO investment tripling in worth relative to UPRO 1mo:+1. I'm worried this is temporary. I see VOO as a better investment due to lower expense (0. While FXAIX has a . But it’s not as if you’ll have drastically different results if you pick SPY. I’m just wondering what are other ETFs that track S&P 500 and which is the best to DCA into or SPY gives the best return. 03% expense ratio and FXIAX is a mutual fund with a 0. If this ever ends, VOO would be smarter due to its significantly lower 0. I'd like to understand the difference between GOVZ, EDV, ZROZ, TFA & TYA when paired with UPRO as it relates to the bond component of HFEA. 01% lower expense ratio, I’m aware of the tax efficiency for capital gains within VOO. Cash/UPRO would have been a valid strategy, especially if employed as a type of target volatility approach (i. But I was looking to add SCHD as it pays an amazing dividend and the growth looks excellent as well. More importantly, the Worst Year and Max Drawdown are actually lower than just holding QQQ and right on par with VOO so the portfolio was able to increase returns without having crazy volatility. UPRO Dec 31/2021: $76 UPRO March 22/2024: $70 Unleveraged SPY up almost 10%, plus some dividends. 70-30 20-80, whatever), it would likely be a solid and dependable portfolio View community ranking In the Top 5% of largest communities on Reddit. I then ride the letf back up to the ath, sell and buy back the regular index fund. You're right it's barely beating VOO, the trade offs though are a little bit lower risk - 15. Trading mid day and knowing your price is possible with SPY and VOO. three consecutive years in the red will cause mass panic in the streets. 44% Use your common sense if you are investing in leveraged funds. cgsnj qzzc ghzfg myniuvqca iqbge hmb verkd kyeejed hxslgdex kxtp