Sociopaths and animals sopranos reddit. No hard criminal psychopath cares about animals.
Sociopaths and animals sopranos reddit. But to rationalize the crime he made it about the baby.
Sociopaths and animals sopranos reddit honestly he strikes me as a bit of a pervert in the psychoanalytic sense, but then again so do most catholic men There's the debt that Tony owed Hesh, a sociopath mobster would simply just make Hesh disappear. Tony is very violent, impulsive, emotionaland a textbook sociopath Also, Tony loving animals, his children, Christopher, etc. He has a particular soft spot for animals, which, as Melfi discovers, is common among diagnosed sociopaths. A lot of other people who committed terrible acts against others were the same. Richie was charming on certain situations when needed to be but you can tell his behavior is different with everyone, he's like a chameleon that only cared to get around in life at the expense of others. I won’t disagree that some peoples love of animals goes far too over board, and Tony’s preference of animals is actually a form of sociopathy. What sets him apart from the other sociopaths he works with is that he's very intelligent. Members Online Tony Soprano vs. Hitler was apparently very fond of animals too and a vegetarian, I believe. I always loved how Tony had a soft spot for animals, and I decided to look into it more and share some of my thoughts. Humans will find a reason for you to hate them eventually. He chokes the life out of his highest earner for harming an animal. J. Basically Tony remained friendly with both civilians and animals because they were in no way shape or form a threat to him. Reddit community dedicated to the HBO hit TV series, The Sopranos, and movie, The Many Saints of Newark. My personal Sopranos Holy Trinity consists of Ralphie, Paulie and that fucking animal Blundetto The Sopranos isn't the only show to make villains seem like fully fleshed people that you can empathise with while also accepting their flaws, but it is the best. I'm saying that where Tony is a sociopath, his affinity with animals is not unexpected There is a rather old stereotype that all sociopaths and psychopaths are animal torturers. Sociopaths often only empathise with babies and animals. true. Deep down, even Melfi recognized Tony was "in crisis" (over AJ) so she fucked her own argument. You watched the Sopranos and make this baseless claim out of context. No, he's not definitely a sociopath. Just finished sopranos for the first time. He feels really upset about Tracee, Gloria etc. I think a sociopath could feel love towards an animal because it doesn’t represent a threat so the self-defense mechanisms disappear. I've seen some other even wilder takes describing Tony as "not evil. Just because he cried and did good things sometimes and cared about animals doesn’t make him a non-sociopath or a good person. I also believe a dog barked at Chris a few scenes after Mikey's death. Which Tony 100% was. the gangsters that inspired him I also have to comment about the sociopath thing. I feel he wasnt supposed to a sociopath but rather a fat crook from jersey that cares about his kids, animals buy has a f'd up mother and troublesome job/life that he doesnt want to really be in. Also just to point out being a sociopath dosent make a bad person so saying something like "a sociopath of the highest order" is alittle of Not being rude just saying it for future reference. It's a common sociopathic trait to love animals in order for the sociopath to try and prove to themselves that their monstrosity is not their defining feature. They can learn to "do the right thing" in that that benefits them. He does feel guilt, remorse and a whole range of genuine emotions but at a reduced capacity. They all use violence to solve problems, and they don't show any remorse, or guilt. Animals: The Ducks No he literally didn't have ASPD since he was way too much of the most sensitive little overemotional boy. They cannot be human. She needs the sociopath and doesn't even realize she's around a sociopath. sociopaths only have empathy for children and animals Late to the party but as a 1) Sopranos fan and 2) a professional therapist, I find the "he's a sociopath" take on Tony to be way too lazy and easy and lame a reading of the character. What they're saying is that he's a sociopath in spite of his apparent love for animals, not that he's a sociopath because he loves animals. Remember when the psychologist discussed that criminals find reasons for their acts to rationalize and make the criminal act “normal”. I think it's just his self-centered nature that puts him in a place where for some reason, he thinks apologizing for something he apparently "didn't do" would work even though it fails miserably. Then there's the fact that the morals and culture we grow up with heavily influences our empathy towards different things. i always felt like melfi was giving up on him when she came to that conclusion. The whole point is that EVERYONE'S governed, at base, by self-interest to a huge extent. which tony does love. It's implied Melfi recognises this trait in Tony, finally accepts that he is a sociopath who is using therapy to be a more effective criminal, and she sacks him as a So much is made of Dr Water Bottle and his study that suggests talking therapy only serves to make sociopaths better criminals. You think the Beansy thing trumps beating a pregnant hooker to death, killing a horse (a helpless animal I might add), walking out on a woman whose son was killed, ordering the murder of said son Ralphie, not Richie, take the cake for most deserved murder. As a result, Melfi finally cuts Tony loose. There’s definitely something to the whole “sociopaths and anti-social personalities sympathize with animals but not humans” thing. When people are talking about Tony and sociopathy, I always see people cite the scene with Melfi as proof that tony is a sociopath, or even say that Chase hammers you over the head with it by spelling it out for you on the screen. I love animals, and I have deeper emotional connections with animals, than I feel able to have with another human. He shoots his own flesh and blood cousin for getting involved in NY’s civil war (that fucking animal). stupidity vs Matt and Sean stupidity The episode is also why I strongly disagree with people that say Ralph was a sociopath. So the role of a supporting character is to help develop the story line and provide conflict. Why would a sociopath keep Artie around especially when he owes him money? Yes Tony has some sociopathic tendencies but he's not sociopath. The thing is the sopranos is a more realistic show and so paints thier characters in a more realistic light woth realistic attitudes. Nearing the ending of my Sopranos rewatch and the biggest issue I always have is how quick Melfi is to dump Tony - it just seems so rushed. He was a good man who lived by a code and provided for his family. There are other examples out there though. In that paper it says that sociopaths express affection for babies and animals. A known trait? lol How can it be a known trait for sociopaths when the majority of humans in general love animals and children. Disclaimer, I don't know what would be normal in this situation, and I'm not in a mental health or medical field. A Look at Animals in the Sopranos This is a four-page essay analyzing the role of animals in the series, such as the ducks and Pie-O-My. I’d say Ralph and mustang Sally were the sociopath for fun/sadism type. He cares about things to the extent that they serve him. Dec 30, 2020 · RELATED: The Sopranos: 10 Saddest Things About Tony. towards the end of the show, dr. Animals: The Ducks Sep 11, 2016 · That's really to misread the show. Some says they are able to love and emphasize but can turn it off easily. No hard criminal psychopath cares about animals. Tony is 100% a sociopath and just like with all mental disorders, anti social personality disorder is also on a spectrum. Tony shows empathy quite often, to animals, to AJ, to Meadow, to Adriana, etc. It was just the final push Melfi need to drop him. With babies, for example, probably one of the reasons a sociopath would feel such affinity for an infant is because that infant can't talk back, she can't really complain, she can't judge, she can't challenge. He has many moments in the show that are atypical of a garden variety sociopath. The episodes where he gets worked up over horses and lapdogs show this. In a worse show, I think that would be true, but the Sopranos is different. A sociopath wouldn't have killed Ralphie over a horse. They’ll probably feel next to non emotional empathy towards an animal that doesn’t belong to them though, they may even want to harm them just for fun (if they have sadistic tendencies). Other research suggests they only show empathy towards kids and animals, which we see with Tony most often. Tony would probably love being labeled a sociopath it would be a great excuse to use for his behavior. But that’s not Tony. This isn't true all the time But he wasn't a sociopath. He fakes most of his emotions with the exception of two - his love for animals and for his own children. melfi is talking to her psychiatrist about tony being a sociopath, and then later a group of friends about sociopaths. In the death scene he sees the branch through the baby seat. In a show full of sociopaths, I think Richie Aprile takes the cake for being the most evil person on the show. Some sad shit, motherfucker said he put it back in drive. He is no Patrick Bateman, Christopher Moltisanti is a very realistic and mature example of an actual sociopath. it was a confluence of things (I mentioned in another thread a theory I recalled reading that related the Cleaver hat to Tony's memories of his own father cutting satriale's hand, and his father's failures, and how he So he convinces himself that he’s doing right even though subconsciously he knows he’s not. He couldn't fathom that AJ had empathy unlike him. Psychopaths can't feel empathy, sociopaths are able to understand empathy and mimic it so they convince themselves they feel it only with beings that can't hold them responsible for their actions and their thoughts, those can be animals, babies, inanimate fetishized objects (material acquisition), idols, or just your ego. I completely disagree. In most cases, sociopaths are typically complete scumbags, just very dangerous people (not all are violent). His recklessness is more present than his lack of remorse. victims of narcisstic abuse and those with CPTSD also love animals . So who are sociopathic? I've ranked them from more likely to less The women describes these criminals like Tony as sociopaths but then Dr. Fact is, he was brought up in the mob and is a product of his environment. Domesticated animals are just happy little things enjoying life, and also they are really fucking cute. Even Hesh has to be a sociopath. If my memory is right, in that same season Melfi is talking with another psychiatrist and they mention sociopaths can feel protective of animals and children. Part of the reason is because the racist jokes in the Sopranos are just funny on their own terms. In another episode, Tony's psychiatrist points out to her shrink that Tony is an animal lover, and the shrink and her discuss that being animal lovers is a latent coping mechanism for some sociopaths who are terrible to people (as Tony is). The thing about sociopaths is they can have some empathy as it relates to them. And they have he ability to turn a switch and rationalize away empathy for anyone they don’t deem worthy. Reply [deleted] • Ralph is a mobster, a sociopath, and basically has all the prerequisites of a seasoned and talented liar. Lots of people have the maturity to get a laugh out of stereotypes without being a racist, but of course, this is now a forbidden truth in mainstream US culture But his emotion for animals and Meadow indicate he is mostly a sociopath. What Melfi's friends discussed here was that sociopaths could display and or fake empathy in therapy, manifested through a sentimentality towards animals. Members Online Just finished watching The Sopranos for the first time. A sociopath wouldn't have loved those ducks to the degree Tony did. Tony displays a textbook sociopath in that he cares more about animals than people and manipulates them without showing emotion- look at telling Adriana about Christopher’s suicide attempt as manipulation. I think Tony’s special affection towards animals, his narcissism (in how he manipulates people), his very obvious violent behavior and tendencies, depression and anger and childhood feelings of resentment and rage towards his toxic parents, lack of empathy and remorse are all indicators that yes, he is a sociopath, or an anti-social He kills his friend for snitching to the government. But just because he offered the dude a few hundred bucks, simply bc he felt bad that he made the dude lose a huge portion of his income just for doing his job, doesn’t mean he isn’t a sociopath with psychopathic tendencies. I knew a guy who could lie to you about anything. Not sure about the threshold for sociopath, but if Chrissy is a clear sociopath, then everybody is one too. tony fits the bill a lot closer than your average TV “sociopath” does. another is kids. You have fallen for the charisma sociopaths often exhibit So the argument for Tony not being a sociopath because he loves animals might not hold up in court. Why would liking animals / babies have anything to do with Sociopathy, which is in essence, a lack of empathy. Sociopaths/psychopaths are so evil, even animals and little kids could be harmed and it doesn't make them feel digusted or sad. There are probably only a few real sociopaths in the Sopranos, and none of them are main characters. Members Online Now that I’ve watched the whole thing, I feel like I’ve joined some kind of special club. tony is both. Scene wise they do give us a glimpse of a better tny, and that would look like When I was watching the show I noticed a few weird/interesting moments with animals, I think the show has a very weird, almost supernatural-like take on animals in some scenes, also maybe hinting at reincarnation maybe? A dog barks at Mikey moments before he's shot. He puts out a hit on his dead friend’s (and former boss’s) kid who was also dating his daughter. But his empathy for his kids and animals sounds more like When Melfi reads the research on sociopaths and therapy in Blue Comet, there is a passage making essentially the same point as yours regarding sociopaths and a love for animals. Feb 24, 2024 · This theme really kicks in around season 4 when Tony takes over Pie-O-My from Ralphie. 1K votes, 151 comments. Members Online Jackie Jr. IIRC, it's more that a lot of sociopaths see everything in black-and-white, either "good" or "bad". But to rationalize the crime he made it about the baby. was spoiled. It isn't. But rather than him deceiving us they just changed him to a sociopath in season 6 to make the viewers dislike him. Yes, that was his selfish need. Despite his obvious blunders and being a sociopath, he's witty, funny, a good earner and personally I think he elevates every scene that he's in. The closest possibility would be Richie Aprile but even he fits more my definition of a sociopath. A psychopath and sociopath has no need for rationalizations like "we're soldiers" and "everybody involved knows the risks". I remember an ex convinced me to watch the first season of Dexter with her and I couldn't get why I was supposed to root for the serial killer over his colleague/cop who is onto him Being a true crime buff, I only recently started reading books on them ( after years and years of reading about the regulars serial/ mass killers ) and funny enough, Eric Harris was a lover of animals. He constantly murders, robs, and cheats on his wife. Tony is kinda the definition of a sociopath. I’m pretty sure the focus on animals the whole way through the series is leading to the conclusion melfi makes of his diagnosis when she leaves him in season 6. AJ was a supporting character on the Sopranos that was the protagonist's son. but tony didn’t seem like he was ever going to give her a reason to think otherwise. . Sociopaths are not " human ", they're more like really really "smart" animals. However, I disagree with the latter part because Meadow lived pretty comfortably as well. To feel empathy for your son after a suicide attempt, he had to imagine AJ as a baby. But by the end of the series, Tony is arguably a far WORSE criminal than he's ever been. For the Empathetically Challenged Reddit community dedicated to the HBO hit TV series, The Sopranos, and movie, The Many Saints of Newark. He suffocated his surrogate son and was surprised anyone was upset he was dead. But from what I've read "sociopath" is a kind of loose term anyway. If Tony Soprano's a sociopath, then so are all of us. She learns once again that the criminals become better criminals through therapy. It’s not even that portrayals of sociopathy that come in the form of a Jeffery Dahmer type are unrealistic, more that they are quite rare and their depictions on tv give the viewer a false impression that this is what sociopaths typically look like, when in fact they are much more akin to a Richie Aprile or a Daniel Plainview than a Hannibal The article in WIKIPEDIA outlines psychopath/sociopath is "characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits. He often blurs the line between sociopath and psychopath. I'm the exact opposite. In The Sopranos episode "Everybody Hurts", the biggest sociopath in the history of the show, Patrick Whalen, is introduced. Melfi reads - but the point was not to say "Tony's a sociopath and can't be helped," it was to demonstrate Melfi's realization that she's been enabling him. Spears isn't really Mr. 47K subscribers in the sociopath community. If I've got it right, psycho/sociopath just refer to varying degrees of Antisocial Personality Disorder. 2 years later but I gotta say - Tony is most definitely a sociopath. It's this with one more layer. That’s the key. If anything, that sounds like something a goddamn sociopath would say. I wouldn't take those as a sign of his inherent kindness tbh. Sociopaths are literally conditioned unlike psychopaths who are born. He wouldn't have felt so much remorse for the perceived role he played in the suicide of a former lover. Sociopaths don't have empathy for anybody. So some of them have enormous empathy for animals and/or small children, because they see them as "good": virtuous, innocent, and pure. Melfi and others think he is a sociopath, but if you actually look into the definition of sociopathy I'm not sure he fits it. I think the execution of this was a little weak and rushed, although I think Melfi dumping Tony was the right and realistic choice. After each rewatch I'm convinced more and more how much of a ruthless sociopath Tony is. basically a connection between tony being a sociopath and his love of I can read an animal pretty well, but people hide their agendas & plans of action; they have the capability to hide sinister ways of life from other’s whilst appearing to be friendly/good people. The "study" about sociopaths was pretty famous and came out in the seventies, so Melfi obviously would have heard of it before the show starte Moreover, two other psychiatrists come into the show's story line only to categorically reject treating such sociopaths -- one even goes so far to say "I watch the news," revealing that he knows Mr. Sociopaths and psychopaths literally have few emotions which are very very muffled and actually the only difference between them is psychopaths actually being psychopaths from the day 1 while sociopaths become in the process tjrough abuse and traumatic childhood and have disposition I always thought the sociopath explanation is leaned on to heavily. I think it was the final straw. Tony was able to do that for anyone who wasn’t his kids, his family to an extent, babies and animals. Elliot literally tells us as an audience (through Melfi's eyes) that Tony is a sociopath and he is using her to advance his crimes. Although this episode is remembered by most fans as the one where Artie attempts to kill himself after losing his money on "the next vodka", students of horror likely remember it best as the episode that most accurately depicts the nature of a young sociopath. I think that Tony Soprano is a far less interesting character if he’s a sociopath because then you can just chalk up all he does to being a sociopath. Sociopaths can love and feel empathy. However, i’ve been reading some posts here about Tony being a sociopath and wanted to give my opinion and hear others. There's no actual study in the real world that supports your claim. Just think about the cruelty people displayed towards animals, women, children in the middle ages. People underestimate the sick shit the main characters of The Sopranos do. For me, that is the definitive answer that Tony is a sociopath. Another sociopath who loves animals I recently rewatched "College" and noticed that when Tony pounces on Fred the rat to murder him, Fred is distracted by a deer. He also, in rare cases, shows empathy for his fellow humans. Animal abusers can go fuck themselves, they're weak cowards. dying throughout the series, and he cares a lot about his children. On occasion, however, Tony's kinder side shines through. Melfi goes to a dinner with a group of colleagues where they begin discussing sociopaths and their approach to therapy. In my opinion, the whole series proves Tony isnt a sociopath. Melfi reads the study to find that, "The criminal's sentimentality reveals itself in compassion for babies and pets. they talk about how sociopaths could display and fake empathy in therapy, for example through a sentimentality towards animals, and use therapy to become better sociopaths. Still wowed by everything and thinking about rewatching again. 'I love my pets and my pets love me, so i must be a decent person' Shit, even Hitler had a beloved dog. In The Psychology of the Sopranos Dr. Anyway, 4 dollars a pound. Tony also showed some emotion, unbeknownst even to him, regarding the dead stripper. He got genuine pleasure out of torturing Beansie. Sociopaths only care about animals and babies. At least that’s what’s said in the study that made Melfi drop him as a patient Reply reply In one of the latest episodes Melfi's psychologist talks about this paper that says therapy does not work for sociopaths, but in fact it enables them to do more harm. Melfi swoops in with the semantic argument asking who is a "true sociopath" which is exactly like people who argue that Tony was not a sociopath. I also don't think calling Tony a sociopath negates the character's complexity, since sociopaths can be quite complex and intellectually layered, having many sides to their personality. I would agree except the research paper they showed in the sopranos says that that's how sociopaths express kindness, with kids and animals. He's a sadistic, misogynistic narcissist with severe mental issues, but I don't think a sociopath would feel the remorse and fear and guilt the way Ralph does. "Sociopaths aren't the robotic, compulsive malefactors that the likes of Hare and Hollywood make them out to be" I know, that's why I identified the character Christopher Moltisanti as a sociopath. One doesn't have to be a sociopath to have sociopathic tendencies, the majority of society has them. Than there's also Artie, Artie isn't really a way for Tony to make money and generally is a pain in the ass. Sociopaths are just worse at it. Sociopaths are friendly to animals not because they feel empathy for them, but because animals inherently can't interfere with the actions of sociopaths. A sociopath knows what they're doing is considered wrong, but they'll rationalise it one way or another. Members Online Christophah was sharp as a cue ball sometimes but made for some hilarious dialogue. I don't think there are any psychopaths in the Sopranos. It’s because psycho/sociopaths don’t see people as people, but animals are special bc they’re not ppl. After everything they’ve been through and all she knows about him (even to the point of fantasising setting him on her rapist) she’s gonna read one study and then immediately kick him out in such a disrespectful way. meh the show is a bit dated in its psychiatric views that sociopaths= love animals. Just my opinion. Tony cares a lot about other people, not just babies and animals. Gabbard draws on his vast professional experience (and his near-obsessive preoccupation with Tony's two "families") to delve into the psychology of the characters, the show's depiction of therapy, and how "The Sopranos" dramatically showcases the psychological ambiguities and conflicts in our own lives. He would cry when dogs died, couldn’t stand seeing animals hurt, couldn’t even watch animals being hurt in movies, but LOVED all other violence. The claim is supported by "sociopaths love animals and babies, since they rage against normal developed humans" But then, I've seen the total opposite. This truth is what finally snaps Melfi out of it, this pretending that they are human because you care about these animals, like a dog or cat, or bear as it were. I looked it up and the study is real. There isn't one. The research on sociopathy is still in the works. And what the fuck is this shit about if you love animals you're a sociopath? And, babies even? Bullshit. I think the very common impression that Tony is a sociopath is the result of that study Dr. When AJ does attempt suicide, what does Tony say to him in one of his few moments of empathy: "It's okay, my baby". he has a soft spot for the truly innocent which is animals . Sociopaths aren't necessarily pure evil. To vilify Tony, we'd have to show a character that's superior to him morally. So Tony being in the mob environment since childhood made him a sociopath. " If we're going by that definition, even if it's just babies and animals, they shouldn't feel so strongly for them, right? It seems to contradict the definition. Was Richie a well liked character? He and Ralph are the only main "spot on" representations of sociopaths in the show. I think that the problem was Tony Soprano's inability to be a good father because of his own issues; heck, he had many problems with being a mentor as well and, at best, had questionable results. All in all he's not the biggest sociopath on the show (Mikey Palmice, Janice, Ralphie, Phil Leotardo and old Manson Lamps probably win that contest but Tony is up there) Most of the series is really about the conflict between the 'two tonies' with it being fairly clear that the sociopath has won by season 6. By definition they are more impulsive pretty much and tend to be poorer bc they can’t plan ahead well. seems a little too well-adjusted though. Pure crocodile tears. His actions cause violence, and never show any kind of remorse. Yeah that too I mean I think Tony is always shown as having empathy for babies and animals exclusively lol (and they hammer this home with Melfi and her colleagues talking about sociopaths and sharing studies that say sociopaths only care about babies and animals and stuff). Criminals are conditioned to not care about other criminals, violence and murder becomes normal. Hell even 50 years ago. Sopranos couldn't be made like it is today, it's that simple. We are reminded of it again during Chris's intervention ("I Oct 15, 2024 · I think Tony is a sociopath. I agree that A. , doesn't mean he's not a sociopath. Remeber how excited he was to find out he had a "retarded" Uncle. Its also a nice pass for the audience. I think that the question is intended to not be answer. But it’s not even true that sociopaths are kinder to animals often a tell tale sign of sociopathy is cruelty to animals at a young age (although this isn’t always the case of course). And anybody who harms a "good" thing must by definition be "bad". Spears, before he declares that he's not taking new clients. The term is vague and not a diagnostic term, but if you're using the common colloquial definitions, he is far from an obvious sociopath. Correct. you can't ignore that we see Tony notice it before he kills Chris, but I'm also as sure as anything that he kills Chris because Chris was high. In this case the protagonist was an evil secret society leader specializing in organized crime. That's what a sociopath really is. But again, it tends to be a selfish love, all-consuming and intense, based on their own feelings and needs. Sociopath and psychopaths are pretty much the same. When she finally reads what her colleagues are talking about in the medical journal the diagnosis states sociopaths take a liking to animals. I think anyone who goes into that line of work is a sociopath to some degree, but sociopathy is a sliding scale. And particularly for sociopaths they have a soft spot for babies and animals. Sociopath/Psychopath is such a loaded/outdated term anyway. gapgnalsepkgutqzxqpvykmbughixjiimadalkhhlgckzicqwlp